Vox Ac30 Jmi 62´ - New speakers | Warehouse Guitar Speakers

Vox Ac30 Jmi 62´ - New speakers

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fernandocandido...
02/25/2019 9:59am

Hi everyone! I need your help in choosing 2 speakers for my 62´ vox ac30. I'm a Queen fan but I want to try to have a mix between the sound of Brian May and the sound of Edge if possible. I have no possibility of buying alnico, they are very expensive. I like that beautiful sparkling highs that edge and Brian have in the sound, but not harsh. I prefer less treble than harsh treble.
Which WGS speakers do you recomend me? Thanks in advance.

VAUGHN SKOW
02/25/2019 12:22pm

Gotcha! I think the real key to what you said is this: "I prefer less treble than harsh treble"

That generally means you will LOVE a pair of ET65's ... so that's my #1 suggestion.

As you probably know, Vox has started using our G12C's in the 2019 Limited Edition amps ... but I would'nt suggest that for you as they are quite bright speakers ... however, the G12C/S (Smooth cone) would be an excellent choice for you ... if you want to tame the top end of your amp significantly ... so a Pair of G12C/S is my #1 suggestion.

And last ... if you want some of what the designers at Vox are in love with ... but don't want to make the amp too bright, go with a G12C and a G12C/s ... that combination will be HUGE, loud and cover a ton of tonal territory.

fernandocandido...
02/26/2019 12:26pm

Hello Vaughn, thanks for your help first of all. I have some questions.
I think you understand what type of sound i want (May/Edge). I do not want to have an AC30 that sounds like a fender / marshall, etc. I have seen some videos of the C / S and it seems to me very well but I am afraid that it will have a very fenderish sound because of the lack of mids that the speaker seems to have in relation to for example a Black Hawk of 50w (or maybe the voicing). Is the C / S mids scoop or closer to the british sound I'm looking for? Thank you.

VAUGHN SKOW
02/27/2019 10:10am

...you will LOVE a pair of ET65's ... so that's my #1 suggestion...

jonascarlsson
03/05/2019 6:27pm

The assumption a certain style of speaker would turn amplifier of brand X into one of brand Y would be a misconception. Cross-breeds of this kind is quite common and the main goal is always finding the driver that complements the amp for a certain purpose.

The C/S is quite a warm speaker, perhaps more reminicient to an Oxford driver or a straight cone speaker but with more headroom from the early days of Fender Tweeds. Perhaps you could say there's something 'british' about it, from certain point of view.

Then I'd second the notion about the ET65 - or the Liberator 80, should you find a NOS or used one or ask WGS to make one for you. These drivers tend to balance out the Vox and offer sound rounded highs without the price of alnico. Actually I prefer this style of drivers of the less capable alnicos.

The Black Hawk (50W) sounds virtually identical to the WGS Black n Blue, which is the WGS take on the Vox alnico.

Narcoleptigon_47048
02/28/2019 4:37am

I was hesitant to post this lengthy/detailed response, but I thought you might find it worth reading to get the sound you are after. Not sure about The Edge, but a rig review video showed that Brian May uses a G12H30 & AlNiCo Blue in one of his Vox AC30's -- not sure if it's a new or old British or Chinese one.

AFAIK, both G12C types have more midrange than most of the British type speakers. The G12C may sound "scooped" to you because it has strong high end and the bass resonance is relatively high. The G12C/S actually has a very flat response that rolls off at ~5kHz, and it has a lower bass resonance. The Vox AC tone stack is very mid-scooped, so a G12C & G12C/S combo will fill in the midrange more than a typical British-voiced speaker, and will have more of Fendery sound -- maybe more like the Edge?

Vaughn may agree that the ET65 is in between those two speaker types in midrange response. Vox AC amps get pretty dark when cranked, so the ET65 may not have enough high end for your taste when the amp is cranked. It's a great sounding speaker for sure, but the wide cloth dust cap damps the inner cone resonance and there's a big dip at ~4.7kHz, so it doesn't have as much upper-mid "character" as a typical paper cap speaker.

The most recent F-M loudness curve graph shows the most sensitive range of hearing as 3~3.5kHz. If you want a brighter British-voiced speaker than the ET65 that also has a dip in the ~3kHz range to reduce ear-fatigue, the Retro 30 should be a good choice. Just turn up the Tone Cut knob when the volume is down if it's too bright. AFAIK, the 3dB cutoff point of the Vox Tone Cut circuit is right where the high end of the Retro 30 and some other classic 12" Brit speaker comes back up at ~3.5kHz, so it should work very well. I'd think it also has more midrange growl (resonance) than the ET65. I think the G12C/S is a very "neutral" sounding speaker that should mix with most anything without creating mutual cancellations. Maybe one with a Retro 30 a would work if you want less overall growl without altering the Ret30 sound much? My guess is the stronger midrange and smooth high end would fatten the high end quality of the Retro 30.

If you want some cone resonance coloration throughout the entire upper-range, you could try a Reaper 30 or HP with the Retro 30. My understanding is the Reaper cone is thicker than the Retro 30, so that the inner-cone resonances are in a higher freq range (reminds me of a Clarinet). Those resonances will then be less pronounced within the combined spectrum of two speakers. The Reaper upper-mid shape is also very close to the Retro30. Stiffer cones also have a "faster" midrange response. That should make for a nice subtly rich and complex sound. Check out this great comparison of the two types:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fKSl6-2cT4

You can actually sync up the samples of each speaker in two browser tabs to hear how they combine. I think it sounds fantastic. I think the Reaper HP ~5kHz range is a tad smoother than the 30, and the bass is stronger. The bass resonance point is also very close to the Retro 30. I'd get the HP for the smoother high end and deeper punch.

A very important aspect of Brian May's sound (other than the 6P pick) is the fairly low (1.9H) inductance Burns 'Trisonic' pickups running straight into his custom-voiced strap-mounted "Treble Booster" Pedal. I don't know his cable C (Capacitance) b4 the TB device, but I'd assume it's pretty low -- maybe ~200pF or lower. Low cable C puts the pickup resonance peak up in the sweet sparkling ~6kHz range. Everything about that simple configuration is brilliant and musically useful.

Trisonic pickups are wound with thin (~44AWG) wire which increases fundamental harmonic strength at a given distance. Thinner wire also has more consistent impedance throughout the spectrum. The ceramic core also has no effect on the impedance, so the high end is not damped. They will generate a broad sparkling resonance peak in the ~6kHz range with a fairly low capacitance cable. When he engages at least two of them in series, the output increases slightly while the resonance peak lowers and is damped down (assuming 250k pots) to where the response is essentially flat up to ~4kHz.

The input-Z of Ge (Germanium) transistor devices is very low (as was May's original TB pedal). The Dallas Arbiter FF input Z was only 5~7k Ohms! What happens to his guitar signal is that case is the high end rolls off below ~1kHz when the guitar volume is up high, but the high end resonance peak starts to come up again when the guitar volume is rolled down (that peak will be more pronounced with a "treble bleed" wiring). So, that's how May gets that big sweet overdrive sound and those sparkling cleaner sounds when he rolls the volume down. It's really a matter of the the very low input Z, so you don't need a Germanium transistor device to get the effect. May actually uses a Silicon transistor TB now. I'd consider something like the Analog Man 'Beano Boost' or Keely 'Java Boost' though if you want Ge. They both have a 3-way voice switch to better match the guitar/amp. Check out this TPS video on TB pedals. I like the Keely Java best. The middle voice sounds fantastic with the Strat, but Germanium is temp sensitive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUBAkwdoewA

AFAIK, it would be pretty easy to alter the input Z of a gain pedal -- may just require swapping one resistor. That's something you could try if you don't want a Ge pedal.

fernandocandido...
03/02/2019 4:54am

Hi Vaughn, hi Narcoleptigon_47048.
If I understand correctly Brian uses a Celestion Blue and a G12h30 Anniversary in his amps. Would the WGS equivalent be a Reaper and a Black & Blue AlNiCo correct? Imagine that for a moment I would be able to buy an AlNiCo, did you advise me to pair this? or for some reason should not I use this pair? Even if I have to buy 2 ceramic speakers, do you think the Reaper would not work on my Ac30, even though it's one of the speakers that Brian uses? I doubt I have many gigs where I can crank the AC30, so I have to think of a good tone for more normal volumes. It's more important for me to have a good sound right from the start than to need to crank the amp to get it because I will not have many places to do it.

Narcoleptigon_47048
03/11/2019 8:37pm

I'm responding with another long post, only to help you get closest to what you want. I really don't know if the G12H30 Brian May uses is an Anni, Heritage or whatever, but I'd say it's a safe bet to go with a Reaper: 30W or HP, or even the 55hz if you want a deeper and more scooped sound with more 4kHz+ chime. My take is the two Reaper 75Hz cone versions are like the Celest Heritage G12H30-75Hz, and the Reaper 55Hz is like the Heritage G12H30-55Hz? I believe all the Reapers have more high end than the Celest G12H30 Anni, but still not ice pick harsh because of the ~3kHz dip.

Again, you can trim the high end at any given volume with your AC30's "Tone Cut" knob if it has that. If not, you might steer clear of the Reaper 55Hz. I think the Reaper HP bass is slightly stronger and high end slightly smoother than the standard 30W Reaper. Any Reaper type should pair well with an AlNiCo Black & Blue, which I assume is warmer and sweeter than a new Celest AlNiCo Blue. I'd also assume that, like an AlNiCo Blue, the bass rolls off higher than the Reapers -- much higher than the Reaper 55Hz.

If you want to save some cash, the Weber Ceramic Blue Dog is a really nice ~$120 speaker with a bit less ~3kHz than the Celest Blue and the same bass roll off. I'd at least choose the 30W version just to make sure it doesn't burn out. The higher wattage version clips sound more bold. I prefer the 30W and 75W clips to the 50W, but that's just my preference. The 75W clip has more punchy bass and ~4kHz chime without more 3~3.5khz harshness -- maybe less likely to get overshadowed by a Reaper, but might be too bright without a Tone Cut knob. The lightweight Aluminum voice coil in the 75W versions makes them more punchy without the added weight that reduces sensitivity to smaller vibrations. The SPL graph I took of a 75W clip does show the high end rolls off slightly steeper from 5kHz. 24dB down at 8kHz vs 9kHz is barely noticeable though. No reason to emulate what was used way back when or by another player if something a bit different sounds better to you. The other Blue Dog options are your call. Hemp cones have more inherent damping resulting in smoother-highs and less overall resonance "character", and I'm not sure how they break-up, so it's a gamble. You may not want as much doping with a Hemp cone. The "Pre-Rola" doping damps the cone cry Blue's generally suffer from. You might want that with a Paper cone. WGS isn't always the answer. You might instead opt for a Weber Ceramic Silver Bell of equal specs to the Blue Dog. The SPL graph of the 50W version clip shows the spectrum to be like a G12H30 Anni, but with a slightly lower freq and wider peak at 2kHz, so I say it's a tad less edgy and more "vocal". They combine for nice Vox AC combo anyway.

Finally, if you want power tube overdrive at low volumes, and a minor amp mod isn't out of the question, you might consider the "10% Power Switch" (or maybe the 1/4 Power Switch) mod on this page:
https://robrobinette.com/Generic_Tube_Amp_Mods.htm

Those simple mods don't change the impedance load like post-speaker out attenuators do, so the tone doesn't really change at lower volumes. Always take proper safety precautions b4 opening the chassis.